tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post4319914964910350307..comments2023-10-28T08:21:03.400-07:00Comments on ATHEIST HAVEN: Religion: A Soothing Balm for the Masses?BEAST FCDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05679628160308289045noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-62784439026144951822008-01-24T06:48:00.000-08:002008-01-24T06:48:00.000-08:00JohnThe pleasure's mine. RegardsBeastJohn<BR/><BR/>The pleasure's mine. <BR/><BR/>Regards<BR/>BeastBEAST FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679628160308289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-57812935811613646132008-01-24T06:25:00.000-08:002008-01-24T06:25:00.000-08:00Beast,How refreshing and joyful it is to engage in...Beast,<BR/><BR/>How refreshing and joyful it is to engage in a discussion/dialectic, without personal emotion, in the sheer pursuit of knowledge and better understanding. In such circumstances, as with you, I am feed with rich new intellectual nutrition. (I learn). I thank you as well, and appreciate your very challenging forum.<BR/><BR/>As a child, I had the choice of learning from my american *Indian* dad or my very Christian mother. I chose to follow the ways of my dad, so I escaped most of the harm early Christian indoctrination can cause. I became very pagan, in fact as I grew older, a bit too pagan even for myself. I found it easy, however, to switch my attention to Buddhism. I still consider it the best of the religions I sampled along the way. Buddhism was spread like real *a soothing balm* with absolutely no sting. Never has a life been lost in the forced propagation of the Buddhist religion. A few Buddhist monks have burned themselves in protest of wrong, but no force has ever been used to persuade someone to Buddhism (unlike the other religions). It has been suggested to me that this is the ideal religion for the future. Perhaps part of the mix?<BR/><BR/>Should no response follow, then I would end with the appropriate respect for your opinion regarding religion in the 21st Century. You may well be correct. I am only considering the issue, and hope to participate in a national and global consideration of the issue.<BR/><BR/>If in the final consideration, it is determined by myself for myself, or by a more global influence, that Religions must go, then I will gladly swing the axe. I have no love for Religion, other than how it might benefit me or my peers. (Once a pagan, one can never cease to be a pagan really in the hidden places. in the daylight, however, personas and intellectual paradigms are like delightful cloaks to wear for public view…so mote it be.)<BR/><BR/>my regards with high esteme<BR/>johnJohn Tecumseh Shawneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08717286291569194398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-52904988097580642242008-01-24T04:46:00.000-08:002008-01-24T04:46:00.000-08:00JohnWhen large numbers of organisms congregate, th...John<BR/><BR/>When large numbers of organisms congregate, there is bound to be conflicts and issues.<BR/><BR/>When large numbers of intelligent mammals congregate, you are bound to get highly structured social hierarchies. Go observe the simian populaces, and you will see more or less the same problems in our civilization, albeit on a more grandiose scale.<BR/><BR/>Yes, Nationalism can be poisonous, and in the case of Imperial Japan, nationalism became a religious cause, almost akin to the inquisitions during WWII. Hitler manipulated the discontentments of a post WWI Germany (At that time, Germany was brutally victimized by the Vesailles Treaty) and anti-Jewish sentiments to cement his rule.<BR/><BR/>I don't think the majority of humans should be blamed: Sometimes the real story can be more complex. Nationalism is a very complex theme,and in many ways it helps to galvanize people into action. Without invoking nationalistic ideas, I have little doubt that Stalin could execute his brutal five year plans, which, along with the millions of Russians who died on the war front, kept Germany from swallowing the whole Russian juggernaut.<BR/><BR/>As for religion, I think I have stated my case: It is not necessary in a 21st century setting.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, John, you have been a jolly good fellow: While I may not agree with you, you have given me much food for thought. For that, I thank you.<BR/><BR/>Regards <BR/>BeastBEAST FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679628160308289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-14127097244893376212008-01-24T04:14:00.000-08:002008-01-24T04:14:00.000-08:00Another social opiate is *nationalism*, or more ba...Another social opiate is *nationalism*, or more basic *tribalism*. It is just as effective at motivating as sports and just as effective as religion in getting people to fight and die.<BR/> <BR/>There simply has to be cohesive factors for a country or civilization to exist and function. Many of these are dangerous with harmful side effects, yet they are essential.<BR/><BR/>There are a number of countries and civilizations, held together by nationalism, that are as harmful as religion on the people, yet, except for a few anarchists among us, who would want to discard national boundaries and civilization.<BR/> <BR/>Without civilization we would not have wars, fights yes, but not wars, and no weapons of mass destruction…only civilization can produce such weapons. If fact, if people destroy our current civilization if will likely be over issues of “nationalism”.<BR/><BR/>In the same sense, without civilization, humans would live in primal environments, likely in small tribal systems, fighting other tribes for territory. Damn, it just occurred to me that it is not actually religion, sports, nationalism, or war that is the problem. It is humans that are the problem. It is the humans that take religion and make something horrible from it…it is humans that kill one another at soccer games. The root cause of all this is actually humans not soccer games!<BR/><BR/>Eureka! Beast, you have help me see the light. The problem is humans…they create and propagate all this harmful stuff. Humans are simply…disgusting and they create disgusting stuff.<BR/> <BR/>The best way I can think of to get rid of religion is to have a big world wide fight that sends everyone left back to the good old days of swinging in the trees and sniffing each other’s back ends. No need for religion thenJohn Tecumseh Shawneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08717286291569194398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-41334285965562137342008-01-23T19:46:00.000-08:002008-01-23T19:46:00.000-08:00John:Eureka! You have just summed up my disgust fo...John:<BR/><BR/>Eureka! You have just summed up my disgust for religion.<BR/><BR/>BeastBEAST FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679628160308289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-77885335821992853452008-01-23T19:07:00.000-08:002008-01-23T19:07:00.000-08:00...depending on how much control or motivation you......depending on how much control or motivation you want. If you want to motivate in some way, perhaps sports is better: but if you want them to fight and die, no doubt, religion is better.John Tecumseh Shawneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08717286291569194398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-21006980964404433102008-01-23T18:59:00.000-08:002008-01-23T18:59:00.000-08:00I will then surmise that sports is a better opiate...I will then surmise that sports is a better opiate than Religion.<BR/><BR/>BeastBEAST FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679628160308289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-4310849003231147782008-01-23T14:55:00.000-08:002008-01-23T14:55:00.000-08:00BeastOne Roman Caesar, Vespasian, built a grand Co...Beast<BR/><BR/>One Roman Caesar, Vespasian, built a grand Coliseum to placate the masses with the opiate of games and sports. Another Caesar, Constantine, took the sign of the cross to motivate his army and placate the masses with the opiate of the Christian religion. Most telling is that Constantine was never a Christian. He never took the opiate for himself, knowing it to be so.<BR/><BR/>In both cases, the Coliseum for the games, and Temples for religion are both places to dispense the opiate. The fact that one opiate is vastly different from another does not exclude both being opiates.John Tecumseh Shawneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08717286291569194398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-31907369348597558542008-01-23T07:20:00.000-08:002008-01-23T07:20:00.000-08:00JohnI find your comparison of religion with sports...John<BR/><BR/>I find your comparison of religion with sports baffling:<BR/><BR/>While the adulation of sports heroes are sometimes over the top (or most of the time, depending on your definition), at least we know these sports people are real. They play to entertain the masses. Religion, however, requires the belief of the unseen. Different concepts here.<BR/><BR/>While I agree with you that Religion is a personal issue, all too often religious people want to impose their beliefs on other people. Like I often say, believe that the moon is made of green cheese for all I care. Just don't force me to eat it.<BR/><BR/>BeastBEAST FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679628160308289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-76214951374966658712008-01-23T05:11:00.000-08:002008-01-23T05:11:00.000-08:00Karl Marx was very effective at framing Religion a...Karl Marx was very effective at framing Religion as a mass opiate – opiate beng a derogative term.<BR/><BR/>Plato rather noted that such “opiates” are essential in a society. Modern sociologists tend to agree. Communities, societies, and civilizations must have cohesive factors in play or the cohesion will degenerate into anarchy.<BR/><BR/>Buffys’ comment about the behavior of people in religious services strikes me as odd. While I am not a church person, the few time I have had to sit through services, I find it rather boring and sedate. Of course there are “holy rollers” who jump and shout, but so what?<BR/><BR/>I would compare religion to another opiate in this country: Sports. Consider how wrapped up in sports many people are. Consider how they act at sports events. And, oh yea, try to take away their sports and see how they act. These people really “believe” in sports! <BR/><BR/>For me, the way people use Religion socially and Sports socially are very similar and, to me, both equally absurd. Religion and sports serve many of the same functions in society. While some may call me an “antisportist”, to me the way people act and feel about Sports, and Sports Heroes. is beyond reason. To me, people that get involved in Sports are stupid, however, I would not want to take sports away from the “fans”, after all, what else would they have to do or think about? For such people (the mass) opiates are essential. <BR/><BR/>For me, the practice of what might be called religion is a very personal, private affair that involves only the individual, in solitude, in a relationship with existence. What is derived from the relationship is my business alone. If I am satisfied with the relationship, that is fine for me alone. I could recommend nothing for someone else. If a person is not so inclined, then there is nothing there for them…better they watch TV.<BR/><BR/>For me most people (the vast majority) are more adept at believing and communing with Sports and social religion. This is exactly what they should be doing…considering the nature of their interests and intellect.John Tecumseh Shawneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08717286291569194398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-50209534123928283072008-01-22T23:14:00.000-08:002008-01-22T23:14:00.000-08:00Just watch the typical religious service and see t...Just watch the typical religious service and see the way the people behave. Better yet, see what they do if you try to take their religion away. Religion truly is the "opiate of the masses".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-55456471428798826932008-01-22T15:44:00.000-08:002008-01-22T15:44:00.000-08:00Can civilization derive any good out of religion?T...Can civilization derive any good out of religion?<BR/><BR/>The answer is yes: The beauty of the Sistine Chapels, the angelic singings of Monks (I am a fan of the Gregorian chants), etc.<BR/><BR/>My position with regards to religion is simple: It should be relegated into the annals of history books.<BR/><BR/>BeastBEAST FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679628160308289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-62412861402736129602008-01-21T18:24:00.000-08:002008-01-21T18:24:00.000-08:00Unfortunately we come into this world with no know...Unfortunately we come into this world with no knowledge. We know only what we are taught and learn by experience. Imagine what we would be told if tyrants had their way. The hope of religion is that we will be given a message of individual freedom and worth. While religion has caused much damage, it has kept alive some very important principles for we who appreciate individual freedom and rights protected by the concept of ‘God’. Whether god exists or not, I still enjoy the freedom and support totally the questionable authority that gives them to me.John Tecumseh Shawneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08717286291569194398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-69087752387525502662008-01-21T13:15:00.000-08:002008-01-21T13:15:00.000-08:00John says Religion is simply a means for humans to...John says <I>Religion is simply a means for humans to rationalize the great unknown that confronts and bewilders us.</I> So that means, people use religion as an escape from dealing with the problems that come up from just being human.??? I think we'd be much better off dealing with those issues without resorting to fables. But I'm an existentialist.Ritahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14706331228965193251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-42713351485393023662008-01-21T10:59:00.000-08:002008-01-21T10:59:00.000-08:00John:What benefits derived from religion? Frankly...John:<BR/><BR/>What benefits derived from religion? Frankly, I don't worry about people's spiritual beliefs, as long as they don't try to impose them. For that matter, I don't care if people continue to believe in the tooth fairy. It is not particularly harmful to believe there is a god. The problem is the people that pretend to represent him.Pvblivshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17931937272948538181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-67300106296529686292008-01-21T08:30:00.000-08:002008-01-21T08:30:00.000-08:00Sould we abandon Religion or fix it? Religion is s...Sould we abandon Religion or fix it? Religion is simply a means for humans to rationalize the great unknown that confronts and bewilders us. Recently visited a website that casts a new perspective on the issue: <A HREF="http://www.spaceagereligion.com" REL="nofollow">http://www.spaceagereligion.com</A>. Rather than abandon the benefits derived from Religion, perhaps it might be more beneficial to abandon the falisfications and failings of Religion.John Tecumseh Shawneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08717286291569194398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7579079460015943811.post-13060247475211724222008-01-21T08:26:00.000-08:002008-01-21T08:26:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.John Tecumseh Shawneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08717286291569194398noreply@blogger.com