Sunday, 14 October 2007

The Trouble With Born-Again Christians

As an ex-Christian and a bona fide atheist, I am sometimes flummoxed by the slew of ridiculous Christian jargon that is pandered around by fundamentalists and religious liberals alike.

Some Christian jargons have their origins from the Bible: "It is easier for the camel to enter the eye of the needle than the rich can enter the gates of heaven" is sprouted more commonly enough to let us infidels understand the fundamental importance of donating our wealth to the Church (Although why the pastors and reverends and all the fat bigwigs aren't doing otherwise is beyond me. Apparently, God's will is unfathomable to us mere mortals!), and of course to remind the mindless flock not to cease the almost weekly cash flows into the church coffers every other God-damned Sunday.

Fair enough. The Church needs the cash, and so does the opulent lifestyles of the rich and wealthy Benny Hinn wannabes.......... but why the need to be "born-again"???

The Stupidity of Being Born-Again

There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 3:1-8

Christian denominations across the board often address their newly-anointed (or saved) sheep as "born-again" Christians, for reasons that I can only attribute to as a distinctive loss of IQ ( and perhaps EQ). While this may be considered an oddity, and even repulsive to the more atheistic masses, the idea of being "born-again" sounds rather disturbing, as it is tantamount to an acute form of submission and considerable brainwashing.

You don't need to be a Richard Dawkins or a family doctor to realize that babies, or the young of any imaginable creature on this planet, are substantially of lower intellect and even weaker strength than their adult counterparts, although some animals, like the gazelle, are required to gallop about within hours after their birth.

When a human baby first descends upon this tiny little planet through his mother's womb, the baby is absolutely hapless, its limbs and bodily functions hardly developed enough to suffer the rigors of everyday life without the aid of its parents. Besides its obvious vulnerability, the baby has to be raised through various stages of childhood, and a sound education will help imbue the necessary information and skills for him or her to survive in the real world.

Now, imagine a full-fledged adult succumbing to this "born-again" syndrome literally, and the scale of time suddenly reverses backwards. Instead of growing older and gaining more knowledge along the way, the newly-afflicted Christian goes reverse mode and becomes a fragile little baby! Now, who in the right mind wants to lose his or her mental and intellectual faculties to the point when he or she has just emerged out of the mother's womb?

The idea that stupidity becomes a prerequisite in a religion meant for sending believers to heaven and unbelievers to hells sounds really dreary indeed, considering that a Christian's version of heaven is no more than a bunch of fluffy clouds and a couple of angels strumming their harps and singing monotonous hymns to a Godfather for eternity. Not to mention the idea of going through the whole damn cycle of being infantile and going through basic arithmetic in elementary school. Now that sucks big-time.

The Real Motives Behind "Born-Again" Advocates


Why the unknown author of the book of John mentioned about being "born-again" is painfully clear: Like the Creationist myth of Genesis, knowledge and intellect are considered to be the nemesis of faith: If you think critically, you will almost certainly not attain the necessary requisites of faith-induced euphoria to become indoctrinated with the hocus pocus of Christian dogma.

The next time someone suggests the "reborn" bullshit, try pointing him or her to the direction of the psychiatric ward. Only a retard will encourage others to lose their intellect, and such morons should be sent for psychiatric revaluation at the soonest possible opportunity.

After all, you were born right the first time.

50 comments:

concerned citizen said...

Having been a born again Christian , I know a bit about this subject.

I was raised on that doctrine, & personally had a born again experience, when I was 30, So I do know about it.
One thing I will say about the born again experience is, that at the time it seems very real, but I look back now & realize I was conditioned my whole life for it. I was taught since childhood, that to be fulfilled in life & death, I must be born again. & during a time when I saw nothing but despair ahead of me I submitted to what i thought was God & became one of the born again crowd.

Of Course, people who still consider themselves "real Christians" dispute what I say, either they tell me I never was born-again, or I was deceived, or I still am born-again (only don't know it), or even worse, call me a liar. Their very best shot is to say that I am now surely condemned to hell because you can't be unborn & then come back.
It doesn't matter what they think though, because I was there & now I'm here.
& having been all through that, What did I gain in the long run?,[ you ask].
I consider myself a wiser person for having been able to finally shake it off.

Like I'd tell drdif I could reply to his "the cross can handle anything" comment on the now disabled death post:
" Darling, I've survived 3 baptisms & 1 born again experience. No more crosses for me!"


Anyway... You have an interesting POV, I haven't thought about quite in that that way before & yes I'd have to agree with you.

The born again experience is meant to be a return to innocence in a sense...& submission and considerable brainwashing is a part of the whole experience.

Pyramidhead said...

Born-again= ex drunk
born again= ex drug addict
born again= ex wife beater
or all the above. Born again mean to me that you give up one crutch for another.

tina said...

Is born again like "saved" ?

concerned citizen said...

tina, Yes. the whole wiping the slate clean thing. different denominations have different takes on it though. Mine was Pentecostal, it has one of the more literal interpretations of what it means to be born again. (As I'm typing this I'm thinking back & can hardly believe my mind could of been there in that insanity) *shudder*
Someday, I'll have to do a post on what it was like growing up amongst people that were one step above snake-handlers. :)

Larro said...

concerned citizen; That would be interesting to read.
Believe it or not the majority of my family are Pentecostal. I attended one of the services once (some Mother's Day thing)...yeah, it was kinda like very kooky.

tina said...

Ohhh...yeah! That was weird to say the least. Speaking in tongues and crazy shit!!

Writer, Splinters of Silver.com said...

Beast,

Just as a new born is birthed from their mother, and must grow and mature in understanding in the flesh, so must one grow and mature in spiritual understanding by the new birth of the Spirit (being born-again)in Chrisitanity. Just as we have to be taught by our parents from our fleshly birth, so must we be taught by the Spirit from our spiritual birth. Just as we do not always obey and follow correct teaching in the flesh, we do not always obey and follow God's correct teaching in the spirit. So anyone who watches Christians will see faults, where we fail to live up to the standard in which we believe, but it doesn't make Chrisitainty a lie nor dismiss God, but continues to show man's depravity and need for santification after being born-again.

Tim

BEAST said...

Tim

Again, there is something inherently flawed about the idea of being born again. Your Christian lingo, such as "spirit", "flesh" and the like is simply muddling the waters.

Like most atheists, I find it almost amusing that anyone institution can align such a parable with their own doctrines. The sheer idea of a rebirth is equivalent to asking a butterfly to undergo metamorphosis even after it has emerged from its coccoon. It just doesn't work.

Birth, life, sickness and death. Its all part and parcel of mother nature's schemes. The cycle repeats itself but can never be reversed.

Beast

BEAST said...

If Man is depraved, then God is a million times worst, judging by the OT's definition of God.

Of course, Tim, you wouldn't know, cos you only read the "feel good" parts.

Beast

Modusoperandi said...

writer "...but continues to show man's depravity and need for santification after being born-again."

Well, that shows the vast gulf between us, then. I see man as okay, rather than living in totally depravity and slaves to sin. I'm starting to think that most of the great Christian thinkers (Saul/Paul, Origen, Calvin, Luther, et al) had "issues".

Maybe all they needed was a hug.

Shaun said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
concerned citizen said...

Like Modusoperandi, I say bull to the insistence on turning mankind into some sort of depraved creature without any ability to solve his own problems.
Tim & other Christians assume that human beings are lacking something that they have to get exclusively from Christianity. Christians seem to forget that throughout the ages human beings have always been on a quest for higher consciousness & the meaning of life. They forget that other humans have standards, too. Unfortunately, Christianity considers it's means to be the all that ends all in the quest & they think they have some kind of patent on morality.

There is nothing wrong with trying better ones self, or reaching out for help in the hope that it is there.

What is wrong is stifling the human spirit by insisting other people go along with your way by fear tactics , brainwashing, & dogmatic ignorance.

tina said...

Who got deleted? Maybe you should re-instate them....? I don't know...I guess I like reading comments more than posting.

tina said...

Crap! I was going to say that, just so I'm on topic....they could be reborn here on Atheist Haven. :)

Pyramidhead said...

The problem here is that most people who are "born again" strike me as that they want to fill a void in their lives and they need the cosmic mcmuffins help. So, these people are so weak-minded that they can't find strength in their inner-self and need to look to an imaginary play mate for life's answers and it's problems

prom said...

Argument is not going to take you any where. You can argue forever and still find nothing. You think you know, but your knowledge will take to your grave. You already know that you are empty inside because you do not have God in your life. The only reason you are breathing is because of God's mercy. All the things that you have in your life, food, a place to live, health and etc is because God is being good to you. You know that you did not create yourself. You just happen to be here. You know that you do not know when you are going to die. That is not in your hand. You don't even know what will happen to you in the next few seconds. You are just a human being, and you are limited. Your knowledge is limited, you have no power. Death can take you at any time. You don't even know what will happen to you when you die and after you die. You have no hope. You think you are strong, but you are weak because you don't have God in your life. If you get in to any accident you might lose your leg, your hand, your eyes or even your life. You think you can control your life, but guess what you don't have any control over your life. There is this thing called evil and he is the one who is controlling this world. As long as you refuse to accept Jesus in your life, the devil has control over your life. That is scary, but it is the truth. Your soul is suffering now because you are empty inside. This will offend you because you think you can make it in this life without God. Guess what, you are wasting your life. For you, life has no meaning because you obviously believe that when you die everything will disappear but don't be fool. You are not just a body; you have a soul and a spirit. You are passing Judgment on your life by not acknowledging Christ, God. And the judgment is going to be eternal punishment, forever. Your soul and your spirit are going to sufferer forever unless you repent and ask God to come to your life while you have the chance. Don't let the devil deceive you. He only wants to destroy your life.

Anonymous said...

I pray that God shed some wisdom and truth on anyone who considers themselves an athiest. You know God exists yet you deny Him to live your lives the way you please. Just remember that regardless of what you think, feel, or believe- the TRUTH is that Jesus Christ died for all of our sins so that we could live an eternal life with our Father in Heaven. Salvation is free! But unobtainable for the one who does not believe in Him, repent and ask to be freed. For the one who does not believe, try saying- "Jesus I am not sure you are the one who can save me but reveal yourself to me and give me wisdom so that I may see, forgive me, save me." And it will be done.
I just do not understand how you wouldn't say such a simple prayer just incase so you may not have go to Hell when you die. Why take the chance?

Larro FCD said...

Ah, in other words you are essentially presenting a variant of Pascal's Wager?

To better be safe than sorry? LOL.

To lay down your life (because that is essentially true) by such a "simple" prayer is in all actuality not that simple. If in fact you think it is then you've chosen one of the most intellectually lazy solutions to life's problems.

BEAST said...

My take on the pascal's wager:

http://atheisthaven.blogspot.com/2007/08/pascals-damn-wager-sidestepping-reason.html

Anonymous said...

I am just wondering why it is that the majority of people who have screwed me over, lied to me, foul mouthed others, manipulated and stole are the very ones who call themselves Born Again Christians. I am just wondering...

Interested said...

Having been in the midst of many who claim to be "born again" I have some of the same experiences mentioned in these comments. My oldest daughter is one to the max. I also have a daughter who is mormon and I find they are both less honest than my son who is an atheist. I think they use their religion to justify what ever fits their personal needs at the time.

Anonymous said...

It really bothers me when people label themselves "Christian". I cant tell you how much that bothers me. I really dont believe that anyone has the right to do that. They openly announce this and then in the same breath begin to bash other people. Here is an example. I work with a Newly born Christian..whatever that means. One day she started judging a man who attends her bible study. She didnt think he had any right to call himself a christian becuase he didnt have a bible. She said that he also ate food at these gatherings but never contributed food of his own. Hmmm.....I am just wondering....what would Jesus do? ( snicker..snicker )...I mean really....maybe the poor guy couldnt afford it? Maybe he really wanted a bible of his own but just could not afford to buy one? I dont know the answer to that but it really struck me that this person speaking to me was not what she claimed to be at all. I dont know what marks a true christian but in my opinion, judging someone for not owning a bible doesnt quite fit the bill. Would a "true" Christian go out of their way to get someone fired from their job as she did with another man, who never said an ill word against her? Cant answer that either as I really dont know what a true christian is. Would a true Christian lie, cheat and steal in the name of Money? Hmm..not sure as i dont know what a true Christian is...seems to me though, the christians I have come to pass in my lifetime certainly do have at least one thing in common...they are exactly the kind of people I want nothing to do with.

BEAST FCD said...

Agreed.

The only true Christians I know are shrew, loud, unctuous and utterly moronic.

Beast FCD

Anonymous said...

i am an athiest and i work with a born again christian who was once a muslim, i challenged him and i challenge anyone to proove the exsistance of god or show me some definative proof that god created this world, i then proceeded to take my car keys from my pocket amd throw them in the air and let them hit the ground and said to him that i just prooved science (gravity) and then again asked him for his proof and he couldnt answer, he just changed the subject and told me about some of his life experiences, so to all you believers i challenge you to proove that god really does exsist and if you can could you introduce us, maybe we could have tea and biscuits and talk about the meaning of life. if anyone wants to know how born again christians are brainwashed just google it and the results will blow you away.

Anonymous said...

Born agains are a confusing bunch. You have catholic born agains and protestant born agains. Hindu born agains and muslim born agains. I think they are all under some kind of hypnosis. This type of braiwashing is no joke!!! And is possibly the biggest danger to our freedom of will today. The amount of people infected with this robotic mind controling virus is huge and spreading. Us worried citizens of society should not be afraid to raise our concerns and fears. Who is really behind this tradegy? Money makers!!! I do not like seeing my friends being used and manipulated in this way. On the other hand I do not like the way my friends treat me now they are brainwashed into believing they are saved and I am not. Born agains feel they have the right to make horrible assumption on my fate.I will make a horrible assumption on the fate of the born again. Braindead, heartdead, poor and isolated. Save yourselves from this hallucination. If I were god you'd probably turn your back on me too if I didn't live up to your expectations.

BEAST FCD said...

Well, you have voiced all my thoughts completely and unambiguously........

Beast FCD

Anonymous said...

I wonder why so-called intelligent astrophysicists have not yet truly deciphered how the universe came to existence WITH PROOF. They say that the Big Bang theory is real yet there is not enough anti-matter in our surroundings. There are only THEORIES around. Well, probably because they cannot match the intelligence of a Superior Being, aka God. Sir Ernst Chain, a Nobel Laureate once said that "I have said for years that speculations about the origin of life lead to no useful purpose as even the simplest living system is far too complex to be understood in terms of the extremely primitive chemistry scientists have used in their attempts to explain the unexplainable that happened billions of years ago. God cannot be explained away by such na├»ve thoughts.”

jenna said...

to me the most seriously offensive thing about the born-agains i have had the misfortune to encounter is that they are INCREDIBLY presumptuous about other people. and they think that their personal jesus trip is the only way to god.

there is no arguing with one of these born-again cretins. they will spew the most vile vernacular and say the most insulting things about the people they are trying to "save" and they constantly go against their own arguments.

i don't think whether there is a "god" or not has any bearing on how full of shit born-agains are or not. they don't practice what they preach, and they preach what they do not know, and they are on a mission to evangalize and save souls and they... oh they make me sick.

the argument about "you are only breathing by the mercy of god" followed in the same breath with "you do not have god in your life" is an example of the EXTREME stupidity involved. if i don't have god in my life, then how am i breathing, if i'm only breathing by god's mercy? and if god has me breathing... well i bet he's in my life. and if he didn't like how i was handling things he'd have me killed.

but you can't argue w/these people. they are really good at heaping insults upon others and assuming people know nothing and have experienced nothing... there's this guy who's been begging me to just try going to church, or reading the bible - he's been incredibly insistent, in spite of my having already told him i'd been to church and read the bible, i just wasn't christian (or religious.)

this guy claimed that my soul needed saving and that's what he was trying to do, but he never said anything more (besides heaping insults upon me) than that i should find jesus etc. he did not practice compassion, he had no empathic abilities. he was self-righteous and rude, and it was very clear to me that he was an enormous loser with nothing in his life to cling to except "saving" people.

"saving" people who already have their own religion, or who for any other reason do not want to be "saved" is really assaultive and offensive. i feel soul-raped by this guy. he said shit to me like "stop crying like a baby and get off your arse and do something to help someone else, for once" and on and on... and he was saying this to someone (me) who does so much to help people she runs out of steam before helping herself (me, myself.)

my urge for some reason is to defend myself against these awful people, but i owe them nothing and shouldn't answer to ppl who have no business making judgments - i mean this guy was hurling judgments like there was no tomorrow, and not having the slightest clue what or who he was talking about.

i do believe i have felt god, i have a concept of god, but this guy - he just reeked of evil. human beings are all connected to the same source and religion is just a cover story told to control the masses and turn people into sheeple with blind obedience to authority (and that's the kind of thing that gets entire nations to fall asleep at the wheel while their "elected" leaders perpetuate wars and continue the lies, and the evil, all done in god's name.

if anything is blasphemous i think it is telling ANYONE who or what or how or if they should be worshipping. spirituality is a personal matter. to me, it's between me and whatever it is i sense as "god" and NO ONE else.

good god damn, these born-again motherfuckers make me wanna puke myself inside out. they're really just a symptom of a much larger disease that has enslaved civilization, but like a boil or wart, just being a symptom doesn't mean they aren't totally vile. i pity them for their foolishness.

Anonymous said...

I was with my boyfriend for 2 & 1/2years, things were going really well and he bought me an engagement ring. Last weekend he became a born again Christian and dumped me because I am not a Christian. He said some really nasty things to me and has totally broken my heart. If this is what becoming "born again" does to someone, then they can keep it.

Anonymous said...

I am really sorry you lost someone you loved to the outragous people who medddle in the private lives of church members. I doubt you are alone. He has been indoctrinated and the type of mind control dished out by extremist churches has reduced him to a mindless zombie. This unfortunatley is exactly what they practise in. Not love and compassion. Certainly not selflessness. Just obedience to the hierarchy. Be thankful you had the sense to opt out of this particular pot of boiling water. I do believe you saved yourself and your future children a great deal of suffering. May the god of free will and thought be with you.

Anonymous said...

My twin sister has become a born again after being spiritual in every other sense e.g pagan and buddhist etc. Nothing is wrong with believing in something, i thought she was going to be the type of christian with morals and you know not judging others. After 2 days of hearing her preaching her new found faith i've become so repelled by her arrogance, immaturity and what she calls humbleness which is really self righteousness towards other religions, even Catholicism! She has burnt all her books that are in any way self improvement, this sounds very familiar to what the Natzis did (destroyed knowledge to reform new ideas and make people think a certain way) ie brainwashing. Anyway the whole family are really worried about her. She has done immorral things in the past and tends to be blindly led by any "charismatic guy" (the pastor) so we were atleast pleased she didnt come across a scientologist. Born agains really do take the easiest way out don't they? It's either be immoral or believe in God and go to heaven. And i think it is due to this belief that they are disgusted by anyone who isn't faithful as they believe they must also be weak and immoral. For born agains theres no strength in inner self and true goodness, for the sake of being a good person without a ticket to heaven.

Anyway I don't know how to approach her as anyone who comes across a born again will know there is no rational or critical thinking going on. I guess i'm basically struggling with How do i SAVE her from insanity?

Laura Harwood said...

Im not a christian of any type nor am I an atheist, but I think but insulting people, calling them morons and such like just make you look like an ignorant troll and gives them fuel for their fire.

Anonymous said...

Being born again is just another part of the richest, sex offending, brainwashing, harboring sex offending cults in the world.

tom butt said...

You have the freedom and right to choose NOT to be born again, just as much as those of us who are born again have the same right and freedom. Insulting us and calling us names just goes to show what kind of person you are.

Just a girl said...

I'm not sure you are quite understanding the 'born again' thing. When I was born again it was a very humbling and powerful experience. I came before God, feeling unworthy and soiled...and then rose above those feelings and painfully accepted christ as my savior...and as I did I felt all sin washed from me. I felt pure and whole and clean and unblemished. I really felt like a whole new person. The mind is a powerful thing...if you believe something enough it will be true...I believed I would be wiped clean of my sin...and I was. Looking back I realize that it was more my belief about what would happen then anything which made it such a powerful experience, but coming from that to where I am now which I do not really believe that jesus was sent to die for our sins and that we didn't need this to begin with and it was all a misrepresentation and misinterpretation of what actually happened...well even as I stand here I completely understand the born again experience and your ideas about it are completely juvenile to me. I didn't find a shred of intelligent thought in anything you had to say!

Just a girl said...

I didn't find a shred of intelligent thought in anything you had to say...obviously you don't understand what it means to be born again. lol

Just a girl said...

lol..guess my first comment did post. My bad. I decided I didn't care enough to bother typing that all again the second time. haha

Gary said...

I grew up a fundamentalist Baptist preacher's son. It was a dark, judgmental religion. When I was in my early twenties, I became an evangelical (same beliefs but with a positive spin).

My problem with both of these denominations was the emphasis on "feelings". I was told that God would talk to me in my heart; he would "move me" or "lead me" to do "his will". All the born-again Christians around me were always talking about how God was talking/leading/moving them...but God never said anything to me! So I left the Church and Christianity completely.

In my late twenties I read some of Martin Luther's writings. I was very surprised by what he wrote and what the Lutheran Church still teaches:

1. Salvation is all God. You don't "accept him" in a born again experience, HE accepts you!

2. God doesn't give personal revelations to Christians. God doesn't speak to you in an inner voice as I had been told. There was nothing wrong with me for not hearing God speak to me...the people around me had confused their own internal thoughts with God!

I would strongly encourage any of you who left Christianity due to all the emotional nonsense of born-again evangelicals to look into Lutheranism.

Check out Lutheranism at:

www.LutherWasNotBornAgain.com

Anonymous said...

Do not the words 'to be born again' mean that you have had your chance in this world in your present form to achieve what you were born to achieve and to be this all singing , all dancing squeaky clean person you would have to be born again to achieve it .....it is a hypothetical term used in the bible that has escalated over time and been adopted by people to suit the meaning that they perceive it to mean. People are simply like sheep and will believe what the believe, its like a Chinese whisper.....its like believing a politician....its a whatever you want it to mean and to be .......

fucko said...

why do these cunts become born again after emotional trauma? it seems to me that being "born again" is something that only happens when people rehab from doing loads of street drugs, etc.

Anonymous said...

I used to be a born-again Christian years ago.
The concept of salvation as I understood it was that original sin caused the souls of mankind to... die, for lack of a better word, and accepting Jesus's sacrifice reboots it with a full health meter.
Then we had to grow in the Spirit by walking the narrow path with the Bible as our handbook, and forsaking the weak, sinful "flesh" which Satan supposedly tries to exploit in an attempt to make us teeter.
Those were the days...

amazingrace said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
amazingrace said...

Titus 3 1-11
I am a follower of Christ Jesus. I associate with no denomination . I grew up in several doctrines. But they were perverted by mans opinion of scripture ,which in turn kept me from truth. When i experienced Spiritual birth , my whole world an everything i thought i knew changed. I learned His ways an mans are not alike ,nor His thoughts like ours. God is spirit ,you cant commune with Him without having the spirit . Im grieved my friends that you have all been influenced or dealt with by false representation of the lord. He is a loving God an wishes to see none perish,but He will not force you to do anything. what kind of relationship would that be if the person did not want to be there ? you love someone when you want to be there not forced. Now, that being said ,He is Holy an Pure, hence He cannot be in the presence of sin. Hence Jesus. He is the mediator for us. I pray for none of you to be angry or bitter,im truly sorry falsehood has been done to you . But,i challenge you to ask Him in your own privacy what is truth an who is He? what is the worse that can happen ? He made us ,not the other way around..Why ask men ? His knowledge an ways are not like ours ...This has nothing to do with our intellect ,intellect is carnal of our body. this is a spiritual matter of your soul an spirit. If you meet a true Born again you will know it my friends... there are millions of lukewarm Christians who will be surprised when He returns an rejects them...those who were born again an did not follow Him or His ways ...all these comments I see here are due to false Christians or followers who are deceived ,handling the word wrongfully an turning people away because of it. Some know better an some are deceived.But all a Christian can do is plant a seed ,we alone can save no one...He saves an only truly knows a persons heart. 1 Corinthians 2 10-14 states but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit,the spirit searches all things ,even deep things of God. for who among men knows the thoughts of God except the spirit of God ?we have not received the spirit of the world but the spirit who is from God that we may understand what God has freely given us . this is what we speak ,not in words taught by human wisdom but in words taught by the spirit,expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. the man without the spirit does not accept the things that comes from the spirit of God,for they are foolishness to him, an he cannot understand them,because they are spiritually discerned. SO,SEE MY FRIENDS NO ONE IS INTELLECTUALLY STUPID ,it is wrong for anyone to imply that to you . I pray you find truth in the only one who can show you . bless you all :)

Anonymous said...

No one is special. Not even born agains. No one knows the "truth" because they are members of a special group. Not even born agains. Hate to say it but born agains who grew up in the middle east would probably make the perfect terrorists. In America they can only annoy you, in the middle east they would kill you. Please, stop looking for the answer to whatever it is your searching for by looking to others. Your God gave you a brain to think for yourself, not to regurgitate words written by old guys 2000 years ago. And unless you learn to work with others and other religions in an ecumenical spirit you will remain a blemish in a world that really needs all humans to learn to love one another if it wishes to survive.

James Broussard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
James Broussard said...

I understand the discomfort with the terminology. Also, as soon as you consider religion or spirituality you seemingly violate naturalistic thought, which for some is akin to taking poison. However, I entertain it in a different way. Science focuses on what we observe to exist or, in some cases, models of what might exist. However, as articulated by many different philosophies, it is entirely logical to consider that there are aspects of reality that cannot be observed, modeled, or even fathomed. It's one thing to believe that the natural world is based on laws rather than supernatural forces, but to believe that all laws, properties, and existences can be evidenced or even deduced by carbon-based life? That belief would require, for me, more faith than is required to believe in God. That being said, with even a cursory knowledge of what is and what could be, I see no reason that there couldn't be a God. Of course, if God does exists and this God is in any way reflected in the religions of ancient civilizations, we must also understand that there is probably much else included in these writings that is more historical and cultural in nature rather than spiritual. I think the key is understanding the context as well as intentions behind the different beliefs, sayings, and customs. In conclusion, if someone asks if you are you saved and through the subsequent discourse you can find agape, then you have discovered something of God. If not, then perhaps you've just been musing with someone over a misinterpretation of some ancient religious writings. Either way, the road to true discovery is neither straight nor smooth. Try to enjoy the ride.

allan simson said...

I tried to help a homeless born again once and let him stay with me, only to have him judge me and my Christian faith. He started yelling and screaming then telling me I'm in the wrong church I yelled back. Born again they are satin fowlers trying to trick us to sin on GOD. If you how have a problem with them say this it scares them go a way you saltines yore trying to change god word, call them satin fowlers as much as you can it is the only way they will go and find god in the right place. Matthew 6:5 very important as they do not do as Jesus side. Jesus side to spared the gospel not ram it down your throat, spared the gospel means let other know about Jesus and what he has sad and don for us with his teachings

Anonymous said...

Christianity may be the title, but it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with faith. And faith should only be shared and spoken in love. As I read these comments, I am noticing consistently that the experiences people have had are with people who are not a good representation of the Christian faith. They (the "Christian" co-worker, or sister, or friend, or off-spring) have forgotten or perhaps never told that without love the rest of it is pointless. If someone cannot accept others for what they believe, if someone cannot share of their faith in a loving non-judgmental way, if someone thinks for even a moment that they are better than anyone else, that person is not truly a Christian. It all begins with love.

Anonymous said...

And what of those without homes, without food and water? Does your God only favour western society, how callous and fickle of your God....
Religion is the worst thing ever to happen to humanity and the educated amongst us see the religious idiots in our midst as nothing Hut unwanted baggage. How can you profess to love a being who allows hunger, rape, oppression, homophobia and sexism to prevail?
Im sure you have a smug, self righteous answer to my query but we both know you're an indoctrinated fool with no substance.
Science is the true God (if you need one to worship).

Unknown said...

See my earlier reply....
Your God, allows the majority of humanity to live in turmoil. Children are born with aids, children are raped by his (so called) servants. You preach that he created all and we should respect and love all of his creations yet you persecute homosexuality (did he make a mistake when he made gay people?). Religion is the worst thing ever to happen to humanity and is responsible for more hatred and suffering than any other factor in existence. You're a fool!